How to Be an Influencer without Even Trying
Kathy and Michelle talk a little about the holidays and some exciting things that have been happening in both of their lives. Michelle is one of the 4 finalists for the WROC 2023 Rochester Remarkable Women, which is an honor in and of itself. Kathy posted a YouTube video on an inspiration which led to a brand deal in a space for which she’s very passionate. Both of these events have us thinking about what our impact is, how we measure our own self worth, and we also reflect on how far women have come from our parents’ generation where women with influence was unthinkable. We’re grateful for those trailblazers that made our lives easier, and we double down on our commitment to making the next generation of women’s journey even better.
Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:02 Happy Thursday, Kathy.
Speaker 0 00:00:05 Happy Thursday and happy new Year.
Speaker 1 00:00:08 Happy new Year. It’s exciting how,
Speaker 0 00:00:10 Yeah, it is. How was, uh, your, your delayed Christmas
Speaker 1 00:00:14 delayed. Christmas was good. Um, it was so fun because like my daughter and I, like we share our Amazon wishlists, wishlists. I can, I can talk again. wish lists with each other. Yeah. And then like she had pulled some things off my wishlist, I always wanted one of those like, um, vintage clocks with, that’s the cat with the tail that goes back and forth and the eyes go back and forth. So my neighbor picked up batteries, two C cell batteries, who would’ve guessed that a clock rans on, on sea cell batteries. Anyway, so she picked up batteries. So I’m gonna hang that tonight and I’ll be able to like sit in my kitchen and watch the cat’s tail twitch. And I’m excited about that. That’s
Speaker 0 00:00:54 The little things I love. Love
Speaker 1 00:00:55 It. But she also took it upon herself to upgrade the things on my wishlist. So I wanted, um, a burger grinder for coffee cuz I like grinding my own coffee beans. Yeah. Um, and sh and she was like, oh, that’s a nice one. You picked mom, but this one’s better. And she got me the better one. You know.
Speaker 0 00:01:12 Nice.
Speaker 1 00:01:13 And I mean, I am a techie girl. I wanted automatic salt and pepper shaker, so she got me the salt and pepper shaker. So I just push a button. There’s a light at the bottom so you can see the salt coming out and that kind of thing. But instead of getting me battery operated ones, like the ones I had registered for, oh no. My daughter gets me rechargeable and has a home base. And as long as you put them back on the base, they stay charged. So I’m telling you, I feel swanky in my condo lately.
Speaker 0 00:01:37 . That is so nice. And since they have to be on the home base, you’ll always know where they are. Which is a problem around my house. I dunno, anything walks off too. Well
Speaker 1 00:01:48 When you live alone, alone, it’s easier to find things cuz the sounds where you left them
Speaker 0 00:01:52 . Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:01:54 I always said when my, when the last kid left the house when I was married, we had three together. I had one, he had two. Anyway, when the last one left the house. Funny. But my shampoo never ran out. Like the milk was always a, I mean like all of those things that happened. Um, and now that I live alone, the only thing I have to watch is the cat food cuz I’m not eating that. But, um, ,
Speaker 0 00:02:14 At least not
Speaker 1 00:02:14 Yet. I, who knows, I’m 80 something. I might be like, is this tuna fish? No mom, it’s cat
Speaker 0 00:02:19 Food.
Speaker 1 00:02:22 But anyway, no. And she loved the gifts. I got her, I got her some things off of her wishlist too. But again, we had talked about so many weeks though, the, the, um, guess who game that I made for her? Yeah. She loved it. She absolutely loved it. She sent pictures to some of her friends. They were like, fine,
Speaker 0 00:02:38 We can
Speaker 1 00:02:38 Talk about it. Cause they’re all on it. So yeah. So it was good. It was really good. It was good to see her and hug her. And I mean, I knew she was safe after the, you know, the storm and everything cuz I’ve been in constant touch with her of course. But to see her and touch her and, and like hold her arms and kiss her, you know, face and all of of those kinds of things, it just, it it did my heart good to spend that time together. So.
Speaker 0 00:03:03 Yeah. Yeah. Oh that’s so good. I’m so glad that you were able to, uh, connect finally. Especially I’ve seens cause I didn’t know what happened because I don’t really, you know, gotta protect my space and so I don’t really watch the news or anything, but I finally just yesterday saw some of the pictures of the houses in Buffalo that were like completely iced over. That is insane.
Speaker 1 00:03:24 Yeah. It’s cuz they’re right on, um, lake Erie. They’re on Lake Erie right into the Niagara River. And so like no matter where you are in Buffalo, you are not, you’re like within a mile of major, um, you know, major lake effect snow and lake effect. Yeah. Everything. And basically they got an an in an interior hurricane level winds, uh, blizzard. And so it was, it was pretty bad. But houses burned, I mean, we’ve talked about this, I think, you know, houses burned down. Yeah. People died. Um, and I am not downplaying any of that. I am just super grateful that my daughter and her husband and their pets survived the whole thing with minimal loss. That is helpful. She, I even let her shop grocery shop in my kitchen.
Speaker 0 00:04:09 . Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:04:10 Help help her, you know, restock the, uh, restock the refrigerator and that kind of thing. I’m like, well I’ve got a lot of onions, takes of onions. Oh, I only use half of this bag of cheese for lasagna. I’m never gonna use the other half. Why don’t you take some mozzarella? And she’s like, okay, thanks mom. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:04:23 Yeah. Aw, that’s great. That’s amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:04:26 Yeah. The free
Speaker 0 00:04:27 Store, that’s what we used to call it when we were teenagers or when we were in college and we’d go home. It’s like, mom’s house is the free store. ,
Speaker 1 00:04:34 You’re not gonna eat the soup, are you Mom? I could take this back to school. Right? Yes. You can have my favorite soup. It’s all good. I can buy more
Speaker 0 00:04:41 . Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:04:42 So, yeah. So it was good. It was good. And then I have, um, I have a big family. I, there’s six of us, um, siblings, uh, three, the, the OGs are the three, me and my two brothers from my mom and my dad. My dad then. And the second wife adopted my sister Amanda. And then dad and his third wife had the two, what I call little boys. They’re not little anymore. They’re 14 and 17. Um, Joshua’s gonna be 18 next, next week actually. But I’m 54. Right. So, and the youngest is 14. So there’s a big age discrepancy between us. Anyway, all of that to say the two youngest ones are actually, um, I hate the word, but they’re orphans now, right? So they don’t have a mom or a dad. Their mom passed away nine years ago. Yeah. So they live in Oklahoma.
Speaker 1 00:05:24 Oklahoma City, right outside of Moore, Oklahoma with my brother Rob and his wife Terry. And, and, um, their daughter, uh, Allie. And so, um, Rob said, you know, send something to the boys for Christmas. Um, we don’t typically send things between siblings, you know, but I, but the, the younger ones. Yeah. You know, especially cuz it’s been out a fear for everybody. Um, I said, well, what do they need? What do they want? He’s like, they go off campus for lunch every day, so give them gift cards. So I bought them each a wallet and I filled it with gift cards for fast food and Starbucks and things like that. And then, because my brother Rob is from Rochester, um, I filled it with Rochester. I filled a box with Rochester sauces. So some of these won’t mean anything to people if you’re not from the Rochester.
Speaker 1 00:06:07 But we have a, a local meat hot sauce. Like we make this delicacy called a garbage plate. It is a heart attack on a plate and it is so freaking good. I think you had one when you were sure baby. Or you saw it anyway. Yes. Um, so I sent, I sent two different meat sauces, like, um, from the, from different locations here. I sent, um, dinosaur barbecue sauce, which is a local d you know, delicacy as well. Um, and then Frank’s red hot sauce for wings. Like i, I just loaded up and speedy sauce. So, um, all Western New York stuff so that they can recreate some of Rochester down there in Oklahoma. So that was a lot of fun too. Nice.
Speaker 0 00:06:42 That’s great. Awesome.
Speaker 1 00:06:45 So yes, I feel like the holidays Christmas, I finally got through the holidays. Yes. .
Speaker 0 00:06:50 Yeah. It’s, you know, I love the holidays. I love being able to like, just connect with people and just like, there’s this, this, especially between Christmas and New Year’s, there’s this mm-hmm. space to just think and be and get in touch with yourself. And so I love that. But at the same time, it’s like leading up to it, you, you almost need that space because it’s just like between
Speaker 1 00:07:15 Yeah. So frenetic Black
Speaker 0 00:07:17 Friday sales and all of the craziness of November into December, it’s like you need that week to just do nothing.
Speaker 1 00:07:25 Absolutely. Absolutely. I, um, I’m super grateful to be through it, but I’m super grateful that, you know, for the time that we had as well. Uh, and I love, I love the feeling of a new year being new beginnings for things too. Um, I tweeted that I don’t really like resolutions. I think we might’ve talked about this last week a little bit too. Um, yeah, really love, really love making goals. Um, and I can’t remember if we talked about our goals last week. It’s, it’s been a while, but, um, but I’m already starting to work on my first goal, which is to create a book with a local friend of mine. Yeah. Um, and so that’s, we’ve got our first date set on the calendar to meet and start planning that. So I’m super excited about that.
Speaker 0 00:08:06 Amazing. That’s great. Yeah. I have taken no steps whatsoever on my goal because I kind of got sidetracked by that whole Christmas morning impromptu inspiration YouTube thing that I did. And then all of a sudden I’m like advising all of these people what to do about their password managers and it’s just like, kind of took me in this new direction that I did not expect whatsoever. But yeah, it’s been really interesting and, and it’s been fun and I’ve been having a lot of fun with it. And it’s like inspiring me to do all kinds of other stuff too. And I’m still gonna do the fantastic thing. It’s still gonna happen. It’s just, I gotta, I did a thing and now it’s happening . I was like, what’s the, yeah. It’s like, but I d done two videos now and I’ve gotten over 10,000 views altogether and I just don’t,
Speaker 1 00:08:58 That’s
Speaker 0 00:08:58 Amazing. I don’t know, I don’t know what happened really, but it’s kind of cool and it’s been funny and the great thing is, is like, I I, you know, it was Christmas morning, it’s like, okay, do I put this on one of the corporate accounts or you know, I’m just gonna do it for me because it’s just like me and it’s Christmas morning. Yeah. And so I just did it for me and, you know, but, but it’s inspiring me to do stuff for like work stuff. But the cool thing is, so I’ve told everybody at work like, what’s happening with it? And everybody’s like, really not like, well you should have done this for like, no, it didn’t feel right at on Christmas morning to do that. It just didn’t feel right. It didn’t feel, but everybody’s being so supportive. Mm-hmm. like that’s great. And oh my gosh, Kathy’s ans influencer thing. Like, just hilarious, like funny stuff. But it’s like, it’s so, it’s good for me, it’s good for the brands that I represent. It’s just good all the way around and everybody’s celebrating it. And that’s like such a nice thing that I have is
Speaker 1 00:09:55 I have your autograph, can I have your autograph ?
Speaker 0 00:10:00 You know, I have to say too, you have been cuz I’ve been like, what the hell? Right. And you’ve been so supportive. I’m like, this thing is coming in, I don’t know what to do. And you have guided, you’ve been like, you’ve been my one. I’ve asked like two people. One person didn’t get back to me, you got back to me right away and helped me, like guided me through some of this stuff and just, yeah. You have been amazing. So thank you for your friendship there because I Oh,
Speaker 1 00:10:24 You’re welcome.
Speaker 0 00:10:25 Totally in and over my head. .
Speaker 1 00:10:28 It’s, well it’s funny and you know, we had talked a little bit, um, you know, I’m not gonna tip our hands to anybody that we work with or anything, but we had had some conversation about pricing. Right. And traditionally women undersell ourselves. We undervalue ourselves and we underappreciate we lack confidence in a lot of ways. And I don’t, I don’t know what changed for me except I had this one idea of what I would price something at. And I asked a couple of different people, I asked a woman and I asked a man what my pricing should be. And the woman’s came up with a, a couple hundred more than what I had been thinking and the man doubled it. So what I did is I took both advice, I doubled it and added the couple hundred and the customer said, sounds good to me. And I was like, well, I’ll be damned. Yep. So now my rule of thumb is double it and add a little, cuz you can always negotiate down, but you can’t say, oh, you’re willing to gimme that price. Well then I wanna charge more. Like you can’t do that. Right. And so, right,
Speaker 0 00:11:32 Right.
Speaker 1 00:11:33 And I also remember the fact that like, if somebody takes you up on it, you just created work for yourself. So you wanna make it worth your time and worth your while.
Speaker 0 00:11:41 Right, right, right. Yeah. And what I did,
Speaker 1 00:11:44 You’re an influencer .
Speaker 0 00:11:49 Hmm. Yeah. That still has not like taken up home in my psyche or anything yet. But me, me neither. At the same time I need to start embracing it because mm-hmm. , you know, and I’m not like, oh, I’m an influencer. I’m like, no, I wanna help people figure this stuff out so they’re not scared. Cause is the last best thing. If you really look at what happened and what’s going on, it’s like there’s some sketchy stuff going on. It is scary. And we’ve got all your passwords in one basket and that basket is with a company that’s not being forthright about what really happened. It’s scary. And so I wanna help people. Yeah. Yeah. So if that makes me an influencer, I’ll own that. No problem. Sure. You know, so this brand came to me and is like, well, hey, can you consider talking about our product?
Speaker 0 00:12:31 And I was like, scared. I’m like, Michelle, what do I do? And that’s when you advised me to, to price it in a certain way in order to be comfortable for me. I needed like a bullet point list of here’s your deliverables of what you get. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely did. And then that doubled price felt good. Yeah. And I could sell it then because then it, it wasn’t, it wasn’t arbitrary then. Right. It wasn’t just an arbitrary number. Right, right. And it wasn’t just, you know, but I just, and you know, the things that I added as deliverables were not things that were crazy. I was gonna do those things anyway, but I just like really made it look like you’re getting something big. Mm-hmm. , first of all, you got me . Exactly. The Kim Kardashian of WordPress. Yeah. I, I told my daughter last night, she’s being a stinker and I’m like, you know, my name starts with a K for a reason.
Speaker 0 00:13:22 And that’s because Kardashians all start with the K too. And she’s like, if you’re gonna do a ca Kardashian, you’re gonna need to get a face lift. And I’m just like, oh, please. And I couldn’t, I did not have a can comeback to her. I was just like, oh my gosh, she’s so smart. I can’t, she’s starting to get better than me. I don’t have any comeback here, but Yeah, exactly. It’s just like, but here’s the deal. It’s like, I think a lot of people are really scared to like put themselves out there and say, you know, I am an influencer. Or to put themselves out there and say, you know, I have this, I, I have a personal brand or I have this social media presence, or I can sell things or whatever. Mm-hmm. people are afraid to do that I think a lot of times.
Speaker 0 00:14:03 But it’s like if you take your yourself or your idea of yourself out of the equation and it’s just like, okay, this thing’s going on and I need to help people, then it’s like completely different. But then that thing that you think you were supposed to be doing of like building a personal brand that happened, that’s not yours. It doesn’t happen any, that’s everybody’s, everybody’s perception of you. So it’s just like, let that happen on its own, but just like be of service to people and then it all just happens. Yeah. And absolutely. And that’s where your value is. And then you can really feel valuable because I think we are all worth it. And I think, but I don’t think people own what that worth really is. Like you have mm-hmm. , anybody who’s listening to this and you too Michelle, you have so much knowledge, so much to offer this world.
Speaker 0 00:14:47 You’ve done so much, you can just make so many different connections and, and your intuition and your ability to read a market are top level. Mm-hmm. , I mean, some of the best I’ve ever seen in terms of like brand awareness and stuff like that. Thank you. That’s valuable. And people aren’t paying you necessarily for your time. They’re paying you for your expertise, for your knowledge, for your ability to mm-hmm. , intuit and see things that they maybe they can’t. And that is, that’s what’s valuable. It’s not like, oh, well doing this one thing or doing all of these posts or writing this blog post mm-hmm. is gonna take me three hours and you know, $50 an hour or whatever you think in your mind it’s like, no, but what could anybody else do it just like you? Probably not.
Speaker 1 00:15:35 I mean, nobody could do anything just like somebody else. And I, we all have our own take on things. Um, can I brag for a second because I very seldom actually brag , but I, I don’t know, I don’t remember if I shared this with you yesterday or not cuz I was like, like mind blown. But in the middle of a, I was in the middle of a, um, a work meeting yesterday on Zoom. I’d already given my update and my phone starts ringing and I’m on mute of course. And I’m like, I do the thing where I google a phone number before I answer it. Cuz I was like, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t care about Dunham Brat Street. I don’t have a business anymore. I, I know where my car car’s warranty is from and it’s not from whoever’s calling. Like all those things.
Speaker 1 00:16:12 Right. Yeah. Um, and, and you’re not gonna sell me your Google services cuz I know how to do that. So like all of those things. So I Google the phone number real quick while it’s still Dr and it’s the local ra, the Royal Cool Television Station. Yeah. So I’m, I mute the, I mean I already muted but I like muted my, so I couldn’t hear the, um, the computer and I answered the call and it was, and I can’t remember her name. I wish I had like re like committed to memory, but I was so shocked. Um, but I found out that I am one of four finalists for the W R O C, which is our local TV station, 2023 Rochester Remarkable Women. So one of my coworkers, Jeff from gwp nominated me cuz he is here in Rochester too. Oh my gosh. And nominated me and I’m one of four finalists for this award that I just was like blown away just like I Christ started crying. I’m like, you know, all, all the things. Um, and I’m super excited and uh, yes. If I don’t win, it’s absolutely, um, an honor to be nominated
Speaker 0 00:17:12 In the top four. Yeah. My gosh.
Speaker 1 00:17:13 But what I wanna, I wanna win
Speaker 0 00:17:16 .
Speaker 1 00:17:18 We’ll see. Well you already, we’ll see. But
Speaker 0 00:17:20 You won to me. Um, oh, thanks. I just, I just got this impression of like your dad being like super proud, you know what I mean? Like your dad.
Speaker 1 00:17:28 Oh thanks.
Speaker 0 00:17:29 If he’s watching all that, I think he’d be
Speaker 1 00:17:33 So proud of you that he was is so cool. It’s, which is funny cuz he was a misogynist. Like my dad did not think that women, like when he found out I worked in tech, he assumed I was a secretary for somebody who did tech. He literally did. Like, that’s how it was. Right. Um, and when he found out out, like I would talk up myself to my dad, like I would not talk up myself to other people, but like dad, you know, I’m internationally known, um, in WordPress, like people all over the world know who I am and ask me to speak and ask me for my bio and all these things. I like the, the, the founder of WordPress knows, like seizes my face and knows my name and he’s like, oh, really? Like it, it was like shocking to him. And, um, he died last year, the year before is when my daughter got married and at the reception.
Speaker 1 00:18:22 My sister-in-law turned to him and said, Phil, have you ever told Michelle you’re proud of her? Well, she knows I’m proud of she, I I’m sure I’ve said it. She knows I’m, I’m proud of her. And I said, you’ve actually never said it to me Dan. And she hounded him for five minutes until he finally turned and said, I am proud of you. You know, and I’m like, it was the first time I’d ever heard it was the last time I ever heard it too. But, um, but it was nice to hear and, and the fact that he couldn’t believe that women could work in technology. Like, it just, I’m like, dad, I don’t have to be a programmer to work in tech. Like, I don’t have to program things to work in tech. And so it was, it was very interesting, um, that whole thing. So yes, I think he would be like proud and, um, and uh, just, you know, please
Speaker 0 00:19:06 With that, our parents grew up in such a different time. You know, I remember my gosh when I was young and my mom, she didn’t work and then eventually she did. It was like, I remember, uh, do you remember the AKA bring home the bacon
Speaker 1 00:19:20 Alie
Speaker 0 00:19:21 Up in the Yeah, that’s what it was. I remember that. And I’m like, that’s what my mom’s doing, because she went to work and she wasn’t home and she was, yeah, it was just like the Gen X thing where moms went to work and yeah, it was very trailblazing and I think very hard for them too. And she was, you know, doing sales and stuff like that. But I think it was, it was just hard for her. And so every like little win was like this huge win for her. And yeah, she did really well. But I sh man, it must have been so hard for women back in the, in the seventies and eighties to do that for sure. Kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 00:19:57 Absolutely.
Speaker 0 00:19:58 Just trailblazing
Speaker 1 00:19:59 And absolute like, like raise the roof, raise your hands, raise your voice, whatever. To those women who took those leaps of faith for us. I, I saw an article within the last year of the first woman to run the Boston Marathon and how the men who were running it literally grabbed her, threw her to the ground, like she finished it, um, because she refused to give up. And the tenacity that she had was just amazing. But men were literally pushing this woman to the ground so she wouldn’t run in a race that had traditionally been only men. And if she hadn’t done that, like yeah, probably somebody else would’ve eventually. Right. But the fact that somebody was willing to put themselves out and do those kinds of things has opened doors for us to be able to do the things we do. And I’m just, I hope that I’m opening doors for women behind me too. Yeah. Um, because it’s not equal, right. It’s not equal as it should be yet. And so I’m really hoping that the things that you and I do, we’re laying the groundwork for Yeah. Our daughters and the women who come behind them to be able to have an easier time, um, in tech, in stem and steam and whatever career that they want to have. Right. Um, and at whatever level they want to do it. So
Speaker 0 00:21:05 Yeah. That’s why I’ve dragged my kids to tons of different word camps so that they can see Yeah. First of all, community because mm-hmm. , I think with, not even before Covid, I had complaints about how social community had really broken down and sort of like these tribes of people who like watched out for each other’s kids and things like that. That was kids. And kids were getting more and more isolated with being on their phones all the time. And so I had complaints there and I was like, okay, well you’re gonna come see what community really is because it’s not just the kids you go to school with. It’s people who have retired and people who are in college and people who have jobs and people who are trying to start a business. And WordPress brings all of that together in one place as a word with word camps and stuff like that.
Speaker 0 00:21:53 It’s a very physical, visceral Yes. And, and I knew a bunch of other people who would bring their kids too, and so they’d go kind of play, but they’re also like going and listening to, I remember Word Camp Phoenix, and my daughter sat with me listening to Troy Dean, um mm-hmm. , who runs Mavericks. Mm-hmm. , he’s from Australia. And he was in the States for something and he gave a, gave a talk at Word Camp Phoenix, and it was all about like, envisioning, it was like motivational, it was about envisioning your future and like manifesting your future based on your vision and your, your visualizations. And I’m like, oh yes, listen, child , this is, this is like the perfect mix of like WordPress and empowerment and like mindset empowerment. And it was just like the Yeah. One of the better talks I’d ever seen. And to be able to like, give that gift to my kid. It, I mean, she, she’ll be affected for the, and then, you know, that night, of course where Camp Phoenix like had a game truck and we’re playing video games and just like playing and having fun too mm-hmm. and like just celebrating this community we have together. And I, I want her to know that is normal. That’s the way it should be. Mm-hmm. people are supposed to be supportive with each other and, you know, grow up and go find that, even if it is all your weird horse people, ,
Speaker 0 00:23:11 Whatever it’s gonna be. But that’s
Speaker 1 00:23:11 Normal. We got our weird tech people too. So like, there’s a weird faction of every organization, every group, every Com community, so Absolutely. But yeah, so I just, I’m excited about the things you’re working on. I’m excited about the things I’m working on. Um, it, it’s silly to think of ourselves as influencers in a lot of respects, but there’s a great power that comes and a great responsibility that comes with that too. And I think that you and I are really working hard for the community, not just for ourselves. And I think that that shows them the things that we do. And so I think we should keep doing it and lean into it and embrace it. And I mean, I’m not gonna gonna like wear a t-shirt that says I’m an influencer, but, um, I don’t think they come my size,
Speaker 0 00:23:49 But maybe an influencer
Speaker 1 00:23:50 one made. But I’m excited about the, I’m excited about the future. I’m excited about this year and I’m super excited about sharing it weekly with you. So
Speaker 0 00:24:01 Yeah, this is, so much, these conversations have been so much fun for me to just like really kind of take stock of what we’re doing here. And yeah, so I really love these conversations and I’m really grateful too to everybody who’s listening and watching and hopefully getting something from this and, and also maybe seeing a little of yourself in mm-hmm. the conversation that we’re having because yes, Michelle is amazing. I’m so proud of you for this
Speaker 1 00:24:27 And likewise
Speaker 0 00:24:28 This, this amazing award.
Speaker 1 00:24:30 , this is so cool.
Speaker 0 00:24:32 But I, I hope you, I hope other people see themselves in you and everything that you, you’ve done and say, I can do that too.
Speaker 1 00:24:40 Mm-hmm. . And I think that for both of us, I think we both had not only professional goals and professional things that we can point to and say that we’ve made great strides and helped other people, but it personally overcome a lot of obstacles. Um, and, and things to, to put us where we are and a happy positive, albeit sometimes overwhelming, but, um, but, you know, still be rise. And I think that that’s pretty awesome for both of us. So thank you. Thanks for being on, being part of my journey. I appreciate
Speaker 0 00:25:11 You. Thank you too. Thanks for everything and for all your advice and everything too, and just your support anytime. It’s amazing.
Speaker 1 00:25:17 Anytime. I thank you are as well. So, okay. Enough mutual admiration for the day. If you’re still listening, we love you too. And uh, we’ll see you next week. Bye.